We've all heard it ....."I love the sinner ..... I just hate their sin."
This statement has been critiqued a thousand ways. While some may use this phrase with the best of intentions, it has proven to be unhelpful and alienating. Yet inevitably, on some blog conversation about homosexuality and Christianity it will come up. If conservative Christians hope to bridge the gap between the church and their gay neighbours, it will be important to deconstruct the use of such dismissive cliches.
In our interview with Tony Campolo for our now available DVD series, "Bridging the Gap" he had some very interesting comments to make.
We think Tony's point is one that needs to be heard loud and clear. Will you help us get this youtube clip out there far and wide? Share it with your friends and contacts.
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
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12 comments:
I added this clip to my blog at
http://carleton1958.xanga.com/698348755/tony-campolos-story-of-a-gay-son-and-his-take-on-love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/
Thanks for sharing this.
That's a great clip.
"Love the sinner" is usually said as a trap to get the listener to hear “Hate the sin”. The emphasis is on hating something. The people who say it frequently go on to talk at gay people rather than with them.
It could easily be switched around to “I hate the sin but… I love the sinner” but a slightly different emphasis would creep in and it would open up the speaker to considering how exactly he/she shows his/her love for the sinner.
Thanks Jeff
I have a question to add to what TC says at the end (which is very good). The trouble with hating the sin in my own life and getting the plank out is that it is really hard: really hard to own my sin as sin, really hard to hate it (or at least some of those really 'nice' or 'enjoyable' sins) and really hard to get the plank out. So I think I need you, the church, to help me: get it out and even see it in the first place. If you, the church, don't name sin as sin, then I'm in real trouble. Now maybe there's bigger fish to fry - maybe the church isn't strong enough in naming materialism as sin, environmental selfishness as sin, big houses and big cars as sin. Homosexuality is a soft target. But when we go even further and start saying that which is sin is not sin (e.g. prosperity gospel) then we are in real trouble. I need the church to name sin, or at least help me name it in my own life. But how does the church name sin without it becoming 'let me get that speck out your eye for you', and what do we do when we disagree about whether something is sin at all?
The video segment is truly wonderful and powerful. I love the anecdote about the woman who wants to be with her son at Judgement.
I think this video actually touches upon a big problem with the "love the sinner but hate the sin" approach/cliche. In my experience, people who take that approach/spout that cliche seem to have such a vague notion of what it means to love a sinner that I doubt it has any practical value. It's hard to love someone in practice if you don't actually interact with them on any meaningful way. In that sense, Tony's comments in the clip come full circle, I think.
Of course, some Christians seem to be hesitant or even fearful to take that bold step into interacting with and getting to know gay people -- or even others outside of their well-defined faith communities. (Of course, this isn't really just a Christian problem, but since we're talking about Christians, I hope no one will mind if I stay focused there.) So overcoming that hesitancy or fear effectively is an important issue, I think.
-- Jarred.
While I appreciate Tony's efforts to see beyond just the sexual orientation of a gay or lesbian, it seems that in his effort to understand the whole person, he wants to bypass the fact that the person he is dealing with IS gay or lesbian and that their sexual identity is a very important part of who they are.
I know I have said it here before, as a gay man, you either love ALL of me or NONE of me and that includes the fact that I AM gay.
It's almost like he wants to look NOT beyond that fact but AROUND that fact. Therefore, to me, it's just a kindler gentler way of saying love the sinner and hate the sin.
It's as if he saying I am going to look past the parts of you I don't like and focus on the things I do like. In my world, that does not get him past my front door step.
i've heard that tony is a "red letter christian". can someone please tell me what that is?
Tony's description of a 'red letter Christian' is one who seeks to live by and live out the words of Jesus (which in many Bibles show up in red ink).
wendy, "red letter Christian" is not a complement.
It is used to describe those people who take offense at any particular part of the Bible that makes them feel uncomfortable.
And so they divide the Bible into (illegitimate) hierarchies and basically make optional anything that Jesus did not say.
So to be relevant, one might say: "Homosexual behavior is forbidden according to the scriptures." To which a "red-letter Christian" would reply: Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.
In other words, morality is defined only by Jesus' words and all other parts of the Bible are optional b default.
Hi A.Friend,
I think there are different understandings and approaches to the 'red letter' description. Clearly, you have an opinion about this distinction - which would not be shared by everyone.
My comment was in response to an inquiry and was meant to be descriptive - not valuative.
Personally, I deeply value reflection on the words and teaching of Jesus while at the same time take seriously the call to engage the full council of God throughout the Scriptures.
Tony Campolo talks about Christians who have gay friends even though they disapprove of homosexuality.
I have a few Christian friends even though I disapprove of Christianity.
It's probably very good for us to have friends who see the world through very different eyes, but I'm not sure how strong that friendship can get without a true sense of shared experience.
TRiG.
To the the gay gentleman who says he has to love my whole being all or nothing. Do you think Jesus loved like that.Its not about loving the actions its loving the person. You by saying he wouldnt get past the front door are doing eexactly what you claim Tony is doing, you are in a sense hating a whole person because he is in disagreement to your actions. My children I love unconditionally but I do hate their actions or decisions at time. Its not hard to understand. Jesus told the adulterer in john 8:1-11 "go and sin no more". At that point its decision time. Floow Jesus or face the music so to speak.
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